Gen Z and the CPA Shortage: Why Young Talent is the Solution

Megan - 00:00:51: Today, my guest is Paul Peterson, managing partner at Wiss and Company LLP. In his role, Paul develops and leads Wiss' long term strategy and helps cultivate an environment where team members flourish in servicing their clients and one another. Paul loves seeing Wiss' people and clients thrive and building long term relationships, and he takes great pride in working with such talented teammates to serve their clients and extend their community for many more years to come. Paul has always enjoyed the entrepreneurial and dynamic spirit that people and their clients possess. He is passionate about allowing each person to bring his, her, or their true self each and every day to the workplace. Paul, thank you so much for being my guest on today's episode of CFO Weekly.

Paul - 00:01:35: Thank you for having me, Megan. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today.

Megan - 00:01:39: Our discussion focuses on the CPA shortage and how Gen Z is not the problem, but rather the opportunity. And I'm really looking forward to this topic and learning about you and from your experience, so let's jump right in.

Paul - 00:01:53: Sounds good.

Megan - 00:01:54: So, Paul, you've been at the helm of Wiss and Company for over a decade, navigating both challenges and opportunities in the financial world. So first of all, what drew you to the accounting profession, and how has your view of it evolved over the years?

Paul - 00:02:09: It's a great question. So I think just not to go too far back, but I think for me, I was always a lot of us, when asked the question, how'd you get into accounting? I was always interested with numbers, or I was good with numbers. And the other thing that I was really left with the impression at 13 when your father loses his job out of nowhere and you kind of see the impact that it has on him and what it can do to everything that he was working so hard for. It really kind of puts this seed in your mind, what do I need to do that I feel that I have some protection in what I'm doing? And I remember listening to one of my teachers who says, you know, there's no such thing as an unemployed CPA. So that's kind of what, like, really drove me to the industry, especially during the time when I was at school. It was very difficult for people coming out in the early nineties. This was like before the Internet boomed, so finding a job was difficult. My older brother took him like nine months to land his first job. It was important for me that I was feeling like I'm in something that was going to be in demand. That's really what drove me to accounting was that you had a sense of controlling your own destiny. And I had started off interning and working at a very large firm. I instantly kind of felt that wouldn't really work for me. I'm just one of those that needs to know who I'm working with and that there's a community. I was kind of raised in a small town, so I guess that's just like it was my nature, you know?

Megan - 00:03:45: Yeah.

Paul - 00:03:46: So I was lucky that I found Wiss, and I didn't work at Wiss from the get go. I even thought that maybe public was just not going to be for me because it was almost if you didn't go at the time Big Six, then there was nothing else. It was kind of weird how a lot of professors and even our accounting club always kinda marketed it that way, so I didn't even know there was a whole other world in accounting. So I went to private, and then when I realized very shortly in private that everyone that had the most influential positions in private had their background in public accounting and had a CPA, so I was like, alright, I gotta get back into that. I was happy that I found my way to Wiss. Been here for thirty years, which is crazy. I left at one particular point in time. I went to an Internet startup that never started up, but thankfully, I had relationships here, left on good terms, and came back. But once I came back, like, that grass is greener question or at least fulfillment was answered, like, I really came back with such a purpose, and I've been here ever since.

Megan - 00:04:49: How have you seen the profession evolve over the last twenty to thirty years?

Paul - 00:04:54: I would say the first 25 of the 30 was pretty similar. Yes, there were changes that related to certain legislative changes or things that happened from Enron being, like, the first moment of significant change that I felt like there was disruption in the industry, of course, with the collapse of Arthur Andersen at that point and just the reshuffling of the firms and the consolidation of firms that have been occurring since because it's been such a fragmented industry, but consolidating really pretty rapidly over the past fifteen, twenty years. But over the past five years, it's been significant disruption, I think really starting with COVID and breaking the norms of how work gets done. And I think even though some of these technologies existed, the cultural norms inside of an accounting firm made it difficult to really advance some of these more innovative ways of working. So COVID completely turned the profession upside down with the ability to work remotely, advance your technology, and then just with the massive exodus of accountants, I believe it was like seventeen percent or so that exited accounting or the CPA profession during that period of time. So that was like, I would say, the most disruptive period, and then the second has been the influx of PE and what's that doing to the industry and the structure of the industry and now the emergence of AI. So three massive, to me, disruptive forces that have all come in very short period of time, which we did not experience anywhere near any of the three disruptive forces in the prior 25. So, you know, that's the way I've seen it.

Megan - 00:06:43: And I would say at least the last couple of decades, the CPA shortage has been a well documented issue. So from your perspective, what are the root causes behind this shortage?

Paul - 00:06:54: It's a great question. That's one I ask frequently when I meet with either our entry levels or interns that are coming in. I always start with the question, like, tell me what you hear about accounting, and it's so negative. It's interesting to me that the connotation that existed way back, you know, again, when I was first arriving in public accounting, that many of those negative feelings around accounting and what it brings still exist today. Like, people say crazy hours, you never have a work life balance, you don't make a lot of money, all of these things that are just not completely true. I mean, some cases, yes, but there has been a lot of improvement I've seen and heard from relationships I have with even people at other firms. We've had this, like, black cloud hanging over the profession. I think it also hasn't helped just, of course, with the hundred and fifty credit hour requirement. When they first had thought of this was a much different day. I mean, even the costs of what it took to get a college degree versus what it costs to do four years today and then add another year, and it seems like financially, it's just really difficult for many people. I think we have to solve these core I look at them as the core issues. And I think that we're not helping ourselves by I think there's spin out there that says, hey, you know, this is what it's really like at our place. And then, you know, they recruit the people in, and then they're kinda disoriented because in many firms, they really haven't progressed enough to match the story. So I do think that we have work to do within all of the colleges to think what is the future of accounting. And to me, it's incredible. The opportunities have never been as great as they are today.

Megan - 00:08:54: That's the one thing I've loved about my degree is in accounting as well, and that's what I've loved about being an accountant is I've had so many opportunities to do different things throughout my career.

Paul - 00:09:06: 100%. You know, it's like there is such a creative aspect to it in terms of just, like, the relationships you forge, the people you meet, the industries you work with. The work you do is so varied. Projects are varied. And even on the inside of an accounting firm for the services that we offer today versus when I first started, you could be in wealth management, you could be investment management, financial planning, do tax. You could do or you can go help a CFO in closing the books. Like, there's so many things that we do now that add value to a client. The experience you can get is so well rounded that you can build more of a career where there's not so much of an up and out as there perhaps used to be when the services were they weren't as plentiful, let's say, but it's a very different time in accounting as you're well aware.

Megan - 00:09:57: For some reason, the profession has not been able to shake that nerdy bean counter persona.

Paul - 00:10:04: It's so true, and it's just startling in a way that you see on the inside how much it's changed and how much opportunity there is. Like, it's really incredible. It's almost like I've been really thinking of it this way. It's like we could enter into the renaissance of accounting, but it's almost as though there's some revolutionary pieces that have to happen to get us there.

Megan - 00:10:28: So why do you believe that Gen Z is the key to addressing this problem rather than being a part of it?

Paul - 00:10:35: I would say, first of all, because I think I love Gen Z. Like, when I get time to spend with them and just kinda hear their way of the world. First, it's so much more worldly in the way they look at things and very collaborative. Even though, like, I think the connotation would be that they're so individualistic in terms of the usage of the phone and they're always on their phone even when they're in a group and they're sitting with 10 people and they're all on their phone. They like to be with one another and the adaptive nature of them just from the change in which they're able to be multitasking and being okay with that, which is a real strength. The other thing is I think that what it does is because of the connotation that Gen Z has and what they're looking for more purpose, they want higher quality work. They definitely want to know why are the companies in existence. Like, is it purpose driven? Is it on a social mission? Whatever. I think those things are great for what firms need in innovating and changing. So almost listening to what they want and how they're built gives us the ability to make the changes that are necessary in our firms, not just to meet them, but I think they're helping us propel to meet what's more of the uncertain world to come. And if we embrace that uncertainty, which they're good at dealing with much better than I was trained, you know, in this more certain world, I think it's just a great way to kind of look at how you can mold your firm around, that's what they desire. I just think you become a better firm. They're not asking for things that make us less valuable. I think they make us more, they want more technology. They want to work on more higher valued tasks. From my perspective, I'm like, yeah, let's get the low routine tasks out of here. How do we do that? Makes us more cost effective. I think it makes us more valuable to the clients. I think that's the way I look at it.

Megan - 00:12:38: They seem to get a bad rap for coming out of school, not wanting to work, and expecting to be a partner right out of the gate. Have you found that to be true?

Paul - 00:12:48: I really haven't. I would say, like, they definitely want to know why they're being asked to do something more than maybe, like, as a Gen Xer. It was always we would question it, like, why am I doing this? But we would just do it.

Megan - 00:13:02: You know, it would be like, well, it makes no sense, but I'm going to do it.

Paul - 00:13:02: I think for them, it's more they're definitely more question oriented and, you know, why are you asking me to do this? What role does this serve in the whole deliverable? But I don't see a sense of that they don't want to work or that they're not willing to earn their way through. I think it's just more they're more logical around the approach. And the other thing I've been very surprised about when I asked them about do they want to work remotely versus in the office and what they would tend to want more? Because we have no policy here, by the way, so they're not trying to just match the answer. They are like, we'd rather come in, you know, for the most part. We have the flexibility to work from home. So that was also surprising because I you know, a lot of connotation with them or the perception is that they don't want to come to the office, they don't want to do that. I have not found that to be true at all. So I do think there are some elements of even the fact that well, people say that you know, they're on their phone too much. They do this, they do that. I kinda look at it a little bit differently. Like, I had mentioned, like, this multitasking skill, which I find to be such a crucial piece of being successful today because of how adaptive and responsive we have to be. So it's really hard to say that any of us in any of our jobs today allow us to spend six hours to eight hours doing just one thing. Like, that, I just don't think that exists anymore. So I think that they match a lot of what we need to be doing in terms of how we evolve.

Megan - 00:14:45: And how boring it would be to be doing the same thing for six to eight hours anyway.

Paul - 00:14:50: That's the truth. You know, I remember those days like, so yeah, I feel like they come in with perceptions. I just feel even if they're founded to be true, I think make us better anyway.

Megan - 00:15:01: And as you've mentioned, becoming a CPA takes one hundred and fifty credit hours. It requires a significant investment of time and effort. So how can firms like Wiss and Company adapt their training and development models to make the profession more accessible to Gen Z?

Paul - 00:15:17: That's a really, I think, important question to ask. The way that we've been approached is we've gone very close to now when they begin college, like meeting them at their freshman year, if they have an interest then, or even giving them exposure, which is definitely different from the way we've approached it before, which was almost, hey, you gotta finish your sophomore year or your junior year and we start exposing you. So we do these we try to get to schools, give them the ability to come in for a day. We speak to them about the different areas within a firm. So we try to give exposure. We also offer those that need financial assistance and they want to let's say that they have four years and they need a fifth year to get the 150 credit hours, we have program with a college locally that we help cover their costs. We give flexibility for them to do that. We really try to give financial assistance to help them meet the additional education requirements. But I also feel like we've done a lot more to try to get exposure to them at an earlier age. So whether the freshman year, try to get them as much as we can with an institution, come on in. Sophomore year, same kind of thing. Even if it's not going to be a full time internship, we'll give you a part time internship, like, couple days a week. Give it a shot. So I think we're really trying to be as flexible as we can so that they can earn some money and then just try to give them a better idea that if you do decide to major in this, that it could be very worth your while. Even if it does require another year of schooling, that you can make up for that with the money you'll make down the road. Because we're also trying to be more open around what does that look like. The financial profile, for whatever reason, is very opaque. In many firms, it's been, like, the secret we keep. So we're also trying to work our way through that.

Megan - 00:17:15: And we've touched on this a bit, but Gen Z is often seen as tech savvy. So how can accounting firms integrate more technology and data driven tools to make the work more engaging for this generation and also increase efficiency?

Paul - 00:17:30: Yeah. You almost have to. They force it, really. Like, you know, even what we see, which is kinda interesting. So when OpenAI and ChatGPT first kinda released, we had to almost so we had some interns that had it on their own phone or stuff like that because we didn't have it as a firm license yet or anything, and they were using it. And we're like, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, like, what are you doing? Like, don't, you know we had to. So, no, it's like they kind of force your hand a little bit. But now though, I think because we've been very much we've made the decision, Megan, that we gotta go all in on innovation as much as we can. So I think because strategically, we've made that decision and we're experimenting with different technologies, we're trying to, as much as we can, meet where the technology is so that we can onboard it in a way and bringing in people that, in our operation, that can help onboard these technologies or whatever. I feel like what they'll do is a great job at accelerating the usage of the tech. And I'll give you an example. Like, one of the most valuable people we have in our CAS practice, you know, our outsourced accounting practice is the 23 year old. And this 23 year old has taken it upon himself to really get a great working knowledge of an AI tool that we use, and he's taught others. And it's really become such an influential role that he's filling. And to me, that wouldn't happen with someone that's been ingrained in accounting for a long period of time. It's almost like because they're so used to being curious and using new technologies and no fear at all, and they haven't been entrenched in any significant process, it's that freedom and their ability to be curious and experimental, it's been huge. And so that he's teaching 35, 40 year olds how to do things more efficiently in our outsource practice. So I think that's a great example of if we give them the tools, they're going to actually use them very well. And they're not going to just like, I think the other thing, the perception, is they're just going to have, like, oh, they just want the tech to have the tech. I don't see that. I see that they don't like doing something if a different way is better. We're used to using Excel a certain way, and they know there's something else that could do it better. They want to use something better, or they're going to go do it anyway. So that's what I found.

Megan - 00:20:17: You always hear, like, people don't like change. They don't want to change. But I think you're right. Like, the younger generation, I mean, they've lived through so much change in their lives.

Paul - 00:20:27: Yes.

Megan - 00:20:28: So let's talk about mentorship and company culture and the role that those two things play in attracting and retaining Gen Z talent in accounting firms?

Paul - 00:20:38: I would say that, you know, one of the things that's really happened, especially at Wiss, but I do think this is something that other firms are navigating and you really have to put muscle into your operation and into your people operation specifically. We've had to rethink what human resources is and think differently about what should be in that area, how do we go about developing our people, how do we go about more of a holistic training experience. So what we've really looked at too is how do you also within that customize a program, if you will, where you can create win win situations where it's like, hey, the firm needs this from you, and here's the role. But at the same time, what's your career aspirations, and how do we blend those together? So we have such a thing as every incoming person gets assigned like a growth champion. At first, we look within the service area and assign someone, but as they start to develop relationships, we'll ask them, hey. Do you have a preference? Maybe you've developed a relationship with someone that you're working for that you really feel could be a great mentor for you going forward, and how do we do that? So we're really trying to look at how do you balance out the work aspects and how you set yourselves up so that, yeah, you're allocating them across different jobs and there's that resource movement part of the people ops that they have to do, but at the same time, how do we then look holistically at their career development? How do we look at the training that we bring them? So we, 2025, we're doing a whole initiative on technology training, how to use prompt engineering with AI. So we're really trying to think about making our people valuable. Right? So that, yes, you're valuable at Wiss, but how do we make you valuable for the market? And I think that's been resonating. Retention rate has gotten so much better since we've put in place this area where it's just people support. What I also like is that within people ops, we have people that have different disciplines. Right? So one is specifically on engagement, one specifically on training, one specifically on the resource allocation. You see what I'm saying? So it's like we've been putting more attention to the experience that they get. So, yes, we have the client experience and what we want for them and how we deliver the service, but at the same time, how can we better the experience for our people? And then how do we, at the same time, make them feel as though, hey, my time at Wiss, whether I choose to be here for a career, whether I choose to be here for a short period of time, I'm better for being at Wiss. You know, and I think that orientation has helped.

Megan - 00:23:43: I feel like most people out there want to feel valued and they want to be empowered and those two things go a long way.

Paul - 00:23:51: Totally.

Megan - 00:23:52: So in your experience, how important is it for Gen Z to feel that their work is making a real world impact? You always hear how they're looking for meaningful work. So how can you make sure that they're seeing the purpose and impact of their role?

Paul - 00:24:08: I do think that's really important, and I think it's incumbent upon the leaders and the ones that are overseeing areas. I think you really have to think purpose overall. What we've tried to really think about was on a more, let's say, existential level, like why do we exist, right? And what's interesting for us, it's we've always really rallied around trying, like, the question we asked ourselves in our twenties was, why does accounting have to be such a crappy place to work? And we've continued to kind of work on that and we convey that. We tell the story of how this has kind of evolved and but we're still trying to cure this. So that's, like, the overall sort of, like, we give a theme to it, and we believe that is continuing to be part of the mission. And, also, I think, what can we do as a organization that we do feel like we can make an impact within society that's outside of our day to day accounting jobs, and that is we've taken financial literacy as one. So, you know, people can donate their time. We do hands on learning at a school in the summertime, like, they have, like, an all day program, so we teach a financial literacy course and we can have, like, guest speakers and stuff. So we give that, like, you can get on the ground type of training. And then there's other things we do that we partnered with organizations to do the financial literacy service. We're trying to use a couple of ways which we feel are within our day to day, that it's not so far out there, and it's also not we're picking, like, 10 different things. But, hey, you know, let's work together. Still be collaborative, but here's some things we feel like we can really help in our industry by doing and being a role model for how we can do things better in this industry? And at the same time, are there some things that we can do for society and in our communities? And we feel like it's such a connection, the financial literacy, to what we do. So I think it's important, and I think you have to communicate that. And I think you have to really for the service leaders, we put focus on having them understand and buying into that belief, but also that they spend time getting the groups together periodically, all of them, you know, everyone in that group, and talking openly about these types of things so that they realize that they're part of the whole.

Megan - 00:26:43: And what innovative strategies or initiatives have you seen that have been successful at Wiss and Company in attracting Gen Z talent?

Paul - 00:26:52: I think rotational programs really resonate. So I think that's as a strategy. Let them explore different lines. We've seen a lot of interest in that. So you can start in our audit area, assurance area, spend some time in tax, and go and spend some time in our family office. Right? So having, I think, the options for them if they choose, I think, has helped. And I think another one for us, honestly, is trying to get out to the campuses and speaking more, like, being more of a not just going out to recruit them, but how do we get involved in some of the campuses to start to talk to them about the strategies that we do have within the firm, like the rotational program, the way that how pay works, you know, what the salary looks like so that people can start to see that there is the ability if one chooses to make a career out of here, it becomes, you know, lucrative. The other thing I think that's important in terms of just, like, going back to the tech, I do think right now, if you could be innovative with your technology and especially with some of these tools and be very communicative around how you're going to continue to try to be at the forefront of that, that's resonating with that generation. Because I feel like they're very akin to wanting to be where that curve is. Like, they want to stay at the edge of the tech curve. So I think we're really trying to also be much more communicative around, we realize that's an important part for you. And if you choose to come here, that's going to be something that we hold up our end of the bargain. I think lastly, just is using social media, honestly. I think using social media not just to show, like, hey, here's the great things we do. We have, like, free snacks. You know? What does it look like on the inside of a firm? Like, how do you get rid of the stigma? The more we could do it in an individualized way that's, like, not so much force from the firm, like, hey, the firm's but if we can get just our own people to give the experience of what they go through, like, and use social media to communicate that in their own individualized way, that helps a lot. Because we have to somehow have our 22 year olds, 23 year olds, whatever, get the message out in an innovative way. Like, use the social media to show that it's not as bad as many people think.

Megan - 00:29:21: I actually started my career at one of the Big Four, and it was in '98. And it was brutal long hours, but it was some of the most fun I'd ever had also, so.

Paul - 00:29:30: Yes.

Megan - 00:29:30: It's not spoken enough. Like those relationships.

Paul - 00:29:36: Those memories, like there's something around. Sometimes being in that place where, man, you worked so hard, but you bonded.

Megan - 00:29:48: It's almost like being in a war. Like, you just bond.

Paul - 00:29:51: Don't expect that. No. No. You come out and you're friends for life. You know? You've been through this.

Megan - 00:29:56: And with the evolving role of CPAs from traditional accounting to providing more strategic advisory services, how can Gen Z help drive this transformation? Maybe you've touched on a bit with that 23 year old, but...

Paul - 00:30:09: I just think they're so comfortable with change. Like, there's such a their ability, from what we've seen, the rapid change using these intelligence tools that are available, I think, will continue to help them become more valuable in providing, say, advisory services down the line. And I think that they can actually help teach others even how to use some of these tools that are available that accelerates your intelligence around an industry and can accelerate your learnings around what are some of the threats that these companies exist in their industry. So I think they're well positioned to take advantage as firms continue to either offshore work with some of these, you know, more routine tasks or find ways to get the routine tasks done via AI. I think they can be huge technology champions for us, and I think that they're also going to do a great job collaborating with others. Like, we've seen that they are very comfortable because I think the training that happens for a lot of them now, there's so much more group work. We don't have as many alpha dogs as we used to, and I think that's a wonderful thing. So I do think that they can help us in terms of shaping ourselves for what these because the advisory services, man, you gotta bring multidisciplinary expertise to them now, where a client there's so many more touch points. And so I think they're going to serve it so well.

Megan - 00:31:48: And, finally, given the current challenges and opportunities that you see, what advice would you give to Gen Z out there maybe listening who are considering entering the accounting profession?

Paul - 00:31:59: I would say that it's, even if you had asked me this, you know, ten years ago before what's to come now with AI and the opportunities, I think it's an unbelievable degree to have that gives you such portability. It is the language of business that's not going away. It is how businesses keep score. It's how you know how you're doing. There's so much intricate data that provides a company with a competitive advantage. So I look at it as like, my God. If you understand, and even if you had a dream of owning a business or wanting to run a business, I mean, you see it on Shark Tank all the time. Like, you gotta know your numbers. And so the more knowledgeable you could become with understanding how this works, how to read a financial statement, how to analyze a financial statement, how to communicate it to others that don't know the language of accounting, that's an incredible skill that no matter what they say about what's happening with the technology, will it take out jobs, this is going to be here. And I think with the shortage of accountants that it's increasing the level of pay and the amount of money that could be made today going forward. I think that the upside is quite large, and I think finally, just what's happening in the industry overall, that accounting is going to be so much more than just public accounting firms. You see all these technology firms popping up now that are solely focused on bringing tools to the accounting industry, whether that's the public accounting firm and things that are going to help us in our service delivery and just bringing more value or companies themselves and how they're going to reinvent the controller's office or the CFO's office. So, you know, again, the ones that will be able to win and get great jobs and positions are going to be those that can bring forth the AI and are comfortable living in a, you know, quite a dynamic changing environment for accountants and financial professionals. So I couldn't imagine how wonderful this would be if I was coming out of school today to look at all these opportunities that accountants have. I would have been drooling, honestly. Because I just wanted a job.

Megan - 00:34:16: Yeah.

Paul - 00:34:16: Me too. I'm trying to talk my 15 and 16 year old into the accounting profession because it's been so good to me.

Paul - 00:34:28: 100%. I think we just need more people speaking positively about it. It's been wonderful. And, honestly, I've had a great life. Like, I've had control over my schedule for the most part. Yeah. There's times I have to not do things I'd love to be able to do, and I've had to sacrifice and everything, but my God, I've had so much flexibility at the same time. You know? I just think we just need to do a better job telling the story.

Megan - 00:34:50: Paul, thank you so much for being my guest today.

Paul - 00:34:53: You're welcome. It's been my pleasure. It's been great speaking with you, Megan. Thank you for having me.

Megan - 00:34:57: Yeah. This has been a really fun conversation, and thanks for finding the time to be here with us today to share your experience and knowledge. And I wish you and Wiss and Company all the best.

[00:35:06] Paul:  Thank you. And same for you, Megan. I appreciate it.